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Lecture

TUT 2

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Department
Classics
Course
CLA160H1
Professor
Yuriy Lozynsky
Semester
Summer

Description
TUT 2 EmailYuriy if youre confused about anything about proposal Proposal due Wednesday Secondary sources= must be from modern authors Eg. an article that comments on Xenophon Presenting next week ------ Jimmy leads the discussion Melian dialogues From history of the peloponnessian war War lasted from 404- 403 BC Invasion of Minos Minos was an island nation Sparta stayed neutral during the war Sent an envoy Justice is not relevant Debate is about the survival, was not about justice or honour Was in the melian interest to submit Athenians said to leave them alone Anyone as powerful as theAthenians would do the same Melian still argued that The conclusionAthenians demand surrender from the Melians Melians in end refused to surrender Athenians kill their citizens Colonize with their own civilization Question: How much bias was in the text itself PosesAthenians in bad light, crude, barbaric (strong, can do whatever they want) Do justice and honour count in such cases? Or can they just use raw power and that be the end of al things? History is always written by the conqueres Probably more shocking to us than to the ancients In favour of the romans, support the romans whatever what, but this Thucudides is more tricky SawAthens was heading down (in the war) Athenians were saying on pragmatical grounds, we have strength, and so we have the right Melians= appeal to their sympathy, conscience They had to argue onAthenian terms On pragmatical grounds Angering the gods The gods come into play whatever the topic is This is outside the sanctuary Is it believable The way ancient historians use speeches Unlike other historians I don’t care if its entertaining ( meaning Herodotus) I am recording for future generations But he includes vague formal dialogues I’;m still presenting speech as it was And speech was to reflect the general opinion of a group (a general’s speech to represent theAthenians’opinion) This historian mostly relied on eye- witnesses (as hi main source) He would have gone and asked people ------- Lets briefly talk about the shiel
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