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20 Feb 2011
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POL200 Feb 17
At the end of book 4, Socrates seems to have tied up the argument into a neat
package
Socrates has succeeded at his own argument that justice is good for the human
being that practices it
The justice to the individual is equal to his happiness
If justice means happiness to the city, it must mean the same for the individual
Justice must be synonymous to human happiness
Socrates has won the argument with Glaucon as well as he did with Thrasymachus
But do we know what justice it?
The just individual remains an abstraction
Justice in the individual becomes an internal matter and the just man emerges as
one who only does good for himself
The reason behind the actions of a just man remain unstated, but it is understood
that they benefit him only
Is justice identical and sufficient for happiness?
Yes, if we redefine happiness as justice and justice as happiness
Does the just man act like that just man is usually understood?
The justice of the just man is without reference to his relations with other
individuals
It is an internal matter
This doesnt explain how we should treat others, and how treating them as such will
benefit us
The purified city will only have a defensive foreign policy
Polemrechus poses a sensible question?
How do communities of women and children work?
Socrates has left dark the way of life of the just man
Socrates robs them of a part of the argument
Now, Thrasymachus joins in
Women and children cannot be abolished
The notion of assigning to women, activities exclusive to men, is ludicrous
Socrates argument is on the basis of equal capacity and not on equal right
Socrates says that such a scheme is imposed on women as a duty or obligation for
the good of the city
It is an aspect of the subordination of the individual to the city
The model for the treatment of women is equivalent to the treatment of dogs
The basic principle is to put the women to work in the field
Socrates presents the women as a beast of burden or a slave
Socrates demands that men and women be equally slaves in this city
Socrates suggests that this would make for a more efficient and successful city
This means a common education in music, gymnastic and war
If women are to share male tasks, they must share male education
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Document Summary

At the end of book 4, socrates seems to have tied up the argument into a neat package. Socrates has succeeded at his own argument that justice is good for the human being that practices it. The justice to the individual is equal to his happiness. If justice means happiness to the city, it must mean the same for the individual. Socrates has won the argument with glaucon as well as he did with thrasymachus. Justice in the individual becomes an internal matter and the just man emerges as one who only does good for himself. The reason behind the actions of a just man remain unstated, but it is understood that they benefit him only. Yes, if we redefine happiness as justice and justice as happiness. The justice of the just man is without reference to his relations with other individuals. This doesn"t explain how we should treat others, and how treating them as such will benefit us.

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