- The significance of Socrates objection to Cephalus – who’s perception is
justice as telling the truth.
- Expect our version of justice to help the good, not the bad. However, the
problem becomes when the bad man make use of the concept, where all
respect for private property etc – has become conditional on something else.
- If we don’t what is good for us, does justice require others to respect our title
to it? Is justice just a term that remains significant if used?
- Polemarchus provides a new version of justice – a new definition if you will.
- Cephalus takes the grateful exit from the conversation after being defeated in
the conversation through the Socratic method employed.
- The intervention of Polemarchus comes at the expense of his respect for his
father – due to loyalty, fulfilling his role as Cephalus’ heir.
- Do we understand justice as selfless – or do we just expect to reap some sort
of return from it?
- The reinterpretation of what is old and what may now be relevant or legal –
portrayal through friends.
- Just to harm them (the friends) who are required to do good as well as
- Friends who are owed what is good – enemies are owed what is bad. The
equivalent exchange or justification of justice.
- Also, now that Socrates has perceived this conclusion – Socrates believes
justice as a craft.
- Techne – the word, art or craft. Technically it means ‘technique’ – art as in
‘artisan’ versus ‘artist’
- Movement of Socrates strange – since justice is never typically associated
with a craft. His basis from Polemarchus’ understanding that Justice is an art
because justice is the activity of giving what is fitted.
- Typically, the situation that concerns the involvement of justice typically
involves some facet of craft, of technique, of fitting of knowledge by experts.
- Justice as a form of expertise – therefore the just man is an artisan, an expert.
- The fitting supplied by justice does not compromise the required, the fitting
from friends despite the situational or the circumstantial.
- Help is always held in a particular domain – therefore one must go to the
domain which is relevant.
- 332E – climax, which is directly relevant. :What about the just man?”
Socrates central question.
- Being an ally in battle, being a good friend, loyalty as the central
characteristic. [Polemarchus] Clear case of harming an enemy, helping a
- In war, it is not the good things that only remain at risk – but everything
- “One for all, all for one” – justice as devotion to the common good. The
highest stakes, the greatest of dangers.
- Socrates questions what justice is used for in peaceful times – for contracts,
for partnerships, for deals – to create honest opponents, honest rivals. - Every contract however, is about something, it has a purpose which requires
expertise. (Brings in a third party which cannot be identified?) Justice is
useful when money is lying useless.
- If justice not an art, then it is not up to the task of guarding or protection.
- Justice is identical with the art of guarding.; it is also identical with the art of
- Art is a body of knowledge – guarding and stealing from it are one and the
same. They usually end up going to the same expert.
- The knowledge involved, the art is the same – “takes a thief to catch a thief”
- 330A-B: Line 31-40.
- Socratic interlocutory – where Polemarchus feels the force of the objections,
the contrasts. The consequence of accepting that justice is an art, is that this
art is unidentifiable.
- Therefore, follows on from the premise that justice is an art.
- Guarding is an art – every body is a body of knowledge.
- The problem is indemnifying justice – then identifying it. Every art is either
just or unjust.
- There is a clear distinct line of progress – in the pursuit of justice.
- The knowledge remains neutral until used – depending on who is using it.
- The art of justice remains ambigious due to the variation in the knowledge of
the person, the expertise demanded from. [Scenario: the most effective
detective would be the one who has the most knowledge, exposure of crime]
- There is no variation, difference from the competent guardians – which
makes us different from thieves. Therefore reinforcing the basic point of
- The basic point of his remains clear and but leaves us in the dark in the
central sense for now.
- Justice is therefore not an art – but instead a virtue, a character trait, an