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University of Toronto St. George
Political Science
Ryan Balot

POL200Y1Y L5101 1 R. Balot L5: Republic II & III May 26, 2009 6:01 PM Lecture Finishing Thrasymachus Transition to Book 2 Glaucons Challenge Adeimantus Speech SoulState Analogy City of Pigs Educating Warriors Censorship + Other Provisions Finishing Thrasymachus Tries to unmask justice as merely high-minded moral talk. He is not a neutral observer. His task is to debunk traditional morality. A consequence of this is a diminished respect for justice and the unbridled pursuit of power and wealth. While Socrates attempts to defuse his argument by using the argument that craftsarts are not employed so as to benefit the possessor, but the subject. Thrasymachus counters this by giving examples of arts which do in fact benefit the possessor (i.e. Torture). [344CD] Thrasymachus represents the theorist who admires the winner who unabashedly acquires all that he can for his own good. This is parallel to Athenian thinking at this time. Thrasymachus steers his argument in a different direction. At first he attempts to demonstrate how justice works. Then later, he reveals his own ideas about justiceinjustice. conclusion, he believes that injustice pays and justice is high minded stupidity This then becomes the key question of the dialogue: does justice pay? Socrates, after Thrasymachus reveals his understanding of justice, demonstrates that Thrasymachus thinking leads to results which Thrasymachus himself would not abide by. o Socrates shows that the unjust man= bad and ignorant person, instead of the possessor of crafts o But Socrates is at pains to show that rulership is an art devoted to the subjects good and not the rulers Here, we seethat Socrates foreshadows his later arguments e.g. his money-making argument o 345E .,7B -D o He makes several claims about moneyhonourand what they mean in the light of one who rules Thrasymachus argues that imperial cities are the most admirable as they can get what they want (note the Thucydides connection)
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