4_8_13 Notes.docx

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Department
Philosophy
Course
PHIL 001
Professor
Gillian Ramsey
Semester
Spring

Description
Philosophy Notes – Monday, April 8 Glaucon and Adeimantus are unsatisfied with Socrates and Thrasymachus’ discussion; they press Socrates. Glaucon, playing devil’s advocate, offers a skeptical challenge (in 4 steps): The first 4-5 pages of Book II are Professor Ramsey’s favorite pages in the Republic • From every day, intuitive instinction – construct huge philosophical problem Whole basic new start to the Republic; young Plato wrote dialog that features Socrates and they all take elenchus method; people think an older Plato wrote books 2-10 and is advocating Plato’s own view; it is a more substantive challenge than book 1 • Glaucon is going to set up his challenge; Adeimantus offers a different version of the challenge (religious-based); we’re going to focus on the conventional- based challenge I. 3 Kinds of Good (a) goods in themselves: things desired only for their own sake (pleasure/joy involved); terminology: intrinsic? (b) mixed goods: things desired for their own sake and for their good consequences (knowledge, seeing beauty, being healthy) (c) instrumental goods: things desired for their consequences (medicine/treatments, occupations, paying rent) *Notice that all of these goods are subjective… things desired…we may disagree about whether X is an (a), (b), (c) A good in themselves – something we do purely for its own sake; we may do things to experience joy; a good in itself is something we desire because it feels good Skip (b); we do instrumental goods because of its consequences; we may hate doing it (e.g. going to class because we want to get info to do well on the midterm); take medicine (e.g. Robitussin) to want symptoms of cold/sinus infection to go away; pay rent to have a place to live every month (a) and (c) are very different types of goods; they’re all subjective (for subject – pleasure) vs. objective (good for all) Plato not saying good that everybody must follow; eating food is an objective instrumental good; don’t think of food in the objective sense; we are going to focus on the subjective sense For professor Ramsey, he needs to work out every day or else he is a miserable person, so he goes to the gym at the beginning of the day For us, we may go to the gym to lose weight or meet an attractive person Professor Ramsey enjoys doing it • Professor Ramsey becomes miserable; mixed good (working out = more fit, healthier, not get tired throughout the day = consequences); want both enjoyment and pleasure and good consequences Discussion focuses on people who are conventional (e.g. Cephalus – for reward and punishment); treat justice as an instrumental good (Thrasymachus also says this) Glaucon wants to get rid of consequences to get purely intrinsic good so there’s no confound reasons to be just; challenge is (a); Socrates explains how justice is a good in itself Socrates think it’s (b), a mixed good Glaucon think it’s pleasurable to do (a) and that’s how Socrates can persuade Glaucon that it’s good to do justice Feeling of relaxation or watching a favorite movie and feeling good about it; high you get after you run (very different than feeling you get from helping an old lady cross the street) Doing the right thing is very different than pleasure associated with good in itself; we should be suspicious – maybe Socrates is setting Glaucon up in a way that he can’t respond Most people think justice/being just is instrumental – the consequences? Avoid punishment, gain reputation Stare at you with shame; we feel shame because we internalize social censure Socrates thinks justice is a mixed good; Professor hears voices to wear seatbelt and he feels bad when not wearing seatbelt when pulling out of driveway (internal shame) • Shame of others • If not crossing at the crosswalk, fine issued • Not commit felony times because one can go to jail • Believe in a higher power = always watching = bad mark in a black book Do rewards because we want to think Ramsey’s a good guy; do right thing = people think highly of you, promote you at work; far less rewards than there are punishments We usually focus on the punishments (figure large into motivational scheme) Professor Ramsey thinks that these 4-5 pages absolutely beautiful – return when do philosophical writing p. 34 and focus in on… “you are, I’ll renew the argument” up to “that of just one” – mark as sign-posting • Tells us what he’s going to do and does it in a sequential sort of way • When we write our paper, we should sketch in paper what’s going to happen II. Origins of Justice (359a-b) • Doing jus
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