POL200Y1 Chapter Notes - Chapter 3: Infinite Loop, Cephalus, Thrasymachus
Narration and speeches - mostly speeches
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Socrates's story of conversations he had
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Plato doubly removed
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Can't take Socrates to say what Plato believes
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Plato
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Socrates's own death hangs over work - why people don't like to be questions, court system
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Best arguer yet never engages in politics
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Against Pericles' political involvement
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Tension between Athens and Socrates
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Known for irony, humour, playfully hide thoughts
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Breaking people out of normal thoughts - unconventional
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Socrates
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Socrates and Glaucon (Plato's brother) taken by slave who compels them to come to Polemarchus's
house
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Conversation turns to justice
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Tries to figure out why Socrates won't agree with him
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Not clear what justice is
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Thrasymachus takes over debate - famous sophist
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Socrates doesn't just believe own arguments
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Plot
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Sacrificing
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Cephalus is afraid of death, wants to make things right
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Image of tradition and piety
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Entrance
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Definition of justice is paying debts to Gods and people
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Money helps, but really just char makes me happy (can be rich and sad)
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Sometimes shouldn't tell people the truth / advantageous
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"I don't have your gun"
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Authority is good image of traditional gone
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People say you like old age because you're wealthy
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Cephalus
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Cephalus's son
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Fights in Peloponnesian war
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Justice is giving what is owed according to people
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Socrates: being good to friends and bad to enemies
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Doesn't this make technique and understanding necessary?
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When you're buying a horse and someone knows things about horses
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Need experts more than 'just man'
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When is this most useful?
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Just man is best for guarding money when it is not in use
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If doctor can't help you, he can harm you --> just man is the best person to rob you
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Just man needs justice so he won't steal
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If it's an art --> just like doctor
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Endless loop: justice is not an art to protect money, etc.
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Friends: only help friends or good people --> might not be both
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Implies that tyrants can be the most just people
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If justice itself is good to friends --> what about Spartans who are loyal --> dangerous to city
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Harm anyone at all? - making something worse in virtue
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Follow help friends / harm enemies even though I said it's false
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Conclusion: ideas come from poets and tyrants
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If you think through definition of justice it will always contradict -- there is no full truth
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Polemarchus
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Leaps into conversation
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Like a savage seizing power
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Definition: advantage of stronger over weak
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Thrasymachus
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Tutorial 3
December 23, 2016
5:47 PM
TUTORIAL Page 75
Document Summary
Can"t take socrates to say what plato believes. Socrates"s own death hangs over work - why people don"t like to be questions, court system. Breaking people out of normal thoughts - unconventional. Socrates and glaucon (plato"s brother) taken by slave who compels them to come to polemarchus"s house. Tries to figure out why socrates won"t agree with him. Cephalus is afraid of death, wants to make things right. Definition of justice is paying debts to gods and people. People say you like old age because you"re wealthy. Money helps, but really just char makes me happy (can be rich and sad) Sometimes shouldn"t tell people the truth / advantageous. Justice is giving what is owed according to people. Socrates: being good to friends and bad to enemies. When you"re buying a horse and someone knows things about horses. Just man is best for guarding money when it is not in use. If it"s an art --> just like doctor.