POL200Y1 Chapter Notes - Chapter 3: Infinite Loop, Cephalus, Thrasymachus

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12 May 2018
School
Course
Professor
Narration and speeches - mostly speeches
Socrates's story of conversations he had
Plato doubly removed
Can't take Socrates to say what Plato believes
Plato
Socrates's own death hangs over work - why people don't like to be questions, court system
Against Pericles' political involvement
Tension between Athens and Socrates
Known for irony, humour, playfully hide thoughts
Breaking people out of normal thoughts - unconventional
Socrates
Socrates and Glaucon (Plato's brother) taken by slave who compels them to come to Polemarchus's
house
Conversation turns to justice
Tries to figure out why Socrates won't agree with him
Not clear what justice is
Thrasymachus takes over debate - famous sophist
Socrates doesn't just believe own arguments
Plot
Sacrificing
Cephalus is afraid of death, wants to make things right
Image of tradition and piety
Entrance
Definition of justice is paying debts to Gods and people
Money helps, but really just char makes me happy (can be rich and sad)
Sometimes shouldn't tell people the truth / advantageous
"I don't have your gun"
Authority is good image of traditional gone
People say you like old age because you're wealthy
Cephalus
Cephalus's son
Fights in Peloponnesian war
Justice is giving what is owed according to people
Socrates: being good to friends and bad to enemies
Doesn't this make technique and understanding necessary?
When you're buying a horse and someone knows things about horses
Need experts more than 'just man'
When is this most useful?
Just man is best for guarding money when it is not in use
If doctor can't help you, he can harm you --> just man is the best person to rob you
Just man needs justice so he won't steal
If it's an art --> just like doctor
Endless loop: justice is not an art to protect money, etc.
Friends: only help friends or good people --> might not be both
Implies that tyrants can be the most just people
If justice itself is good to friends --> what about Spartans who are loyal --> dangerous to city
Harm anyone at all? - making something worse in virtue
Follow help friends / harm enemies even though I said it's false
Conclusion: ideas come from poets and tyrants
If you think through definition of justice it will always contradict -- there is no full truth
Polemarchus
Leaps into conversation
Like a savage seizing power
Definition: advantage of stronger over weak
Thrasymachus
Tutorial 3
December 23, 2016
5:47 PM
TUTORIAL Page 75
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Document Summary

Can"t take socrates to say what plato believes. Socrates"s own death hangs over work - why people don"t like to be questions, court system. Breaking people out of normal thoughts - unconventional. Socrates and glaucon (plato"s brother) taken by slave who compels them to come to polemarchus"s house. Tries to figure out why socrates won"t agree with him. Cephalus is afraid of death, wants to make things right. Definition of justice is paying debts to gods and people. People say you like old age because you"re wealthy. Money helps, but really just char makes me happy (can be rich and sad) Sometimes shouldn"t tell people the truth / advantageous. Justice is giving what is owed according to people. Socrates: being good to friends and bad to enemies. When you"re buying a horse and someone knows things about horses. Just man is best for guarding money when it is not in use. If it"s an art --> just like doctor.

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