CLAN1001 Final: MYTH FINAL
Source 1: Thucydides take on Hellenic Navy?
And they could not have united even for the Trojan expedition unless they had previously acquired a greater
knowledge of seafaring. Minos, according to tradition, was the first person to organize a navy. He controlled the
greater port of what is now called the Hellenic Sea; he ruled over the Cyclades, in most of which he founded the first
colonies, putting his sons in as governors after having driven out the Carians. And it is reasonable to suppose that he
did his best to put down piracy in order to secure his own revenues
• Thucydides wrote his history throughout the Peloponnesian War, from 431-410BC
▪ Source Context:
• 'Hellas' did not exist before the Trojan war, there was just lots of regions named after local tribes
• Hellenic identity developed over time due relations to Hellen, son of Deucalion
• Deucalion was Prometheus' son. His mother was Clymene, Hesione or Pronoia.
• Deucalion's wife and Hellen's mother was Pyrrha, who was the daughter of Epimetheus and Pandora.
• Deucalion's other children include Protogenea, Amphictyon (AKA Autochthonus)
• Homer uses 'Hellenes' to refer to Achilles' followers from Phthiotis; rest are called Danaans, Argives and Achaeans. Doesn't use
'foreigners' to refer to others, as no collective Hellenic identity has developed
• Agamemnon must have been the most powerful ruler, rather than Helen's suitors being bound to him
• He owes his wealth/power to his descent from Pelops, who had great wealth/power
• Eurystheus, one of Pelops' heirs, died to sons of Heracles in Attica and was succeeded by Artreus, who had previously been
exiled because of the death of Chrysippus.
• Agamemnon's navy probably intimidated other rulers into following him. He is called 'of many Islands and Argos King'
▪ Other
• This is consistent with Hittite records which refer to the Ahhiyawa and Danaya, the Achaens and Danaans respectively, and
their fight against Wilusa, Troy. Nothing approximating 'Hellenes' is mentioned in Hittite records.
Source 2: Odysseus continues his narrative of his visit to the land of the dead
Then ) saw Minos the son of Zeus holding a golden sceptre and delivering judgements among the dead. There he sat, and
around him the others sat or stood in the ample-gated house of Hades, seeking from this master of justice the firm
sentences of law
• Death lecture → time in Hades (the underworld)
• Minos acting as a judge and delivering judgements in the underworld
• He decides your fate in the underworld based on your life on earth
• This shows Homeric inconsistencies because generally all people in the underworld are treated in the same miserable way, so
why all of a sudden is there a judge to decide who gets treated what way?
• Homer has turned minos into some sort of local magistrate, where disputes between feeable shadows are decided → a mix of
different accounts and is confusing because why would these shadows need court when they are already in (ades?
• )n (omers )lliad there are not accounts about a journey to (ades, but there are 2 passages that refer to the punishment of oath-
breakers after their death and both of these are spoken by Agamemnon
• Menelaus and Paris (Husband and Seducer) are about to fight over Helen → the winner of this ultimately decides the outcome
of the war (Troy?)
• The leader of the Greeks is Agamemnon and he swears that this fight will decide the issue once and for all and he calls upon
unnamed deities who under earth hades take vengeance on dead men (whoever of the men have sworn to falsehood)
• In the other passage, Agamemnon swears on another oath and calls upon The Furies who take care of men who has sworn to
falsehood in the underground
• These two passages are the only ones in homer that promote the idea that if you treat man badly in this life, you will receive
punishment in the next
• Except to swear on oath is to swear in the name of gods, so breaking his oath may seem the same as if a mortal was to break a
rule or belittle the gods (same punishment for him as mortals?) → not much different from our 4 sinners in the Odyssey
• We cant just dismiss these lines just because they have some inconsistencies, because we still have inconsistencies today and
we cannot disregard what has been recorded about punishment in the afterlife
• Odysseus is narrating his experiences in the underworld at the court of the Phaecians
• Odysseus goes on to describe his observations of
• Orion, who herds wild beasts over the fields of Asphodel whilst wielding a mace of bronze. He once killed these same beasts
• Tityus, who is stretched out and has his liver repeatedly eaten, for having once assaulted Zeus' mistress Leto
• Tantalus, who is neck deep in water but when he tries to drink it drains away, and just within reach of food that is swept away
by wind when he reaches for it
• Tantalus was once invited to sup with the gods, but he stole ambrosia and nectar, and revealed the God's secrets
• Tantalus also prepared his son, Pelops, for consumption by the Gods - it was for this that he was punished
• Sisyphus, who must forever push a stone to the top of a hill
• Sisyphus killed people under guest right, and once chained Thanatos (Death) or Hades when they went to chain him in death,
during which time nobody could die.
▪ Greater Context
• Odysseus relates greater experiences including meetings with Agamemmnon, who was killed by his wife Clytemnestra. Achilles
wants to
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Source : Plato’s myth of Er
On their arrival the souls had to go straight before Lachesis. And an Interpreter first marshalled them in order and then
took from the lap of Lachesis a number of lots and types of life and, mounting on a high rostrum, proclaimed: "This is the
word of Lachesis, Daughter of Necessity. Souls of a day, here you must begin another round of mortal life. No Guardian
Angel will be allotted to you; you shall choose your own. And he on whom the lot falls first shall be the first to choose the
life which then shall of necessity be his. Goodness knows no master; a man shall have more or less of her according to the
value he sets on her. The fault lies not with God, but with the soul that makes the choice."
• Another great myth of the afterlife (death lecture)
• Told by Plato
• Plato was born c.430 BC and died in 347
• Platos most important influence comes from his relationship with Socrates
• Socrates is an Athenian philosopher who was put to death by Athens in 399 for the vague charges of introducing new divinities and corrupting the
youth (but in reality it was probably just for political reasons)
• Due to this event, Plato became an enemy to the democratic system which had allowed his teacher to be killed
• Most of Platos writings are constructed as dialogues excl. some letters and his writing called the Defence of Socrates
• Plato never features a character in any of them and this makes it hard for us to put a particular view on Plato
• We may suspect that another character is actually speaking for him but we can never be sure
• The character that plays the biggest role in the dialgoues is Socrates (his teacher)
• Socrates himself wrote nothing and it is commonly thought that Plato writes in dialogue to preserve the arguments and views that Socrates had
• We can note that Platos version of Socrates rejects much of Greek myth as being untrue but Plato does create some of his own myths
• He mentions in one of his dialogues that the most important truths we have to deal with cannot be fully explored in a rational way
• This means that although he rejected the myth as true, it was a source of knowledge that has a voice of authority that cannot be achieved in a rational
way (due to the antiquity of the knowledge/myth)
• Plato believes in immortality of the soul and also tries to philosophically prove what form can life take once you die?
• Although philosophy can only take us so far, we need to go back to the original stories (though he does not like the idea of myth, he goes back anyway)
• Because of this, his myth of Er takes plce at the end of his most famous work called The Republic
• Er was a soldier who had a near death experience and came back to tell the tale
• It is a story of reincarnation – but a complex version
• At death the good and the bad are separated and the good go up to the sky were they are rewarded (but no mention of what the reward is), whilst the
wicked go down into the earth of be punished (again no mention of how)
• But reward and punishment are not eternal like they are in say Christianity, they eventually come to an end and it is then time to be re-born again (run
out of punishment, you get reborn back into the world – possibly to start over? Or reinforce good behaviours?)
• Surely Plato didnt believe this and just made it up as we know he did make others up
• He seems to believe in immortality of the soul and this myth expresses one of the most profound truths of human condition → that we make our own
lives and our own destiny, our lives are (not what we choose, not on one momentous occasion, as it is represented in myth), but everyday we make
decisions that affect our lives (and our souls)
• Basically shows that we make our own judgment and we dont need or have anyone else to do that for us, we determine our afterlife unlike Minos
story)
• Vergil references Plato in his writings also
• Er, son of Armenius, native to Pamphylia dies in battle and doesn't decompose, and awakes once more 12 days after his death.
• Er visited the afterlife, which had two chasms in the sky and two chasms in the earth. The souls of the dead were assessed by
judges and those deemed favourable held badges infront of them and took the right, ascending path to heaven. Those deemed
unfavourable carried badges behind them, and descended to the earth via the left.
• Afterlife lasts ~1000 years, with a life reckoned to be 100
• For each wrong in life, one pays tenfold in death. For each good, one receives tenfold benefit.
• Souls descend from heaven and ascend from earth to enter a meadow where they rest for 7 days before departing on a 4 day
trip to a place with a shaft of rainbow coloured light
• The souls are put before Lachesis, Daughter of Necessity, who bids the souls pick a new life in an order assigned by a random lot
• Er is forbidden to choose a new life
• All kinds of life were present - animals, human, easy lives, hard lives, gifted lives. The Interpretor suggests that each life, lived
well, may give contentment.
• Those who have come from heaven are careless, not being used to suffering, and often choose poor life. Those from the earth
are more careful and choose well. Thus 'good is exchanged for evil, and evil for good'
• Most souls choose lives based on their former
• Orpheus chooses a swan, shunning a woman's life as he'd died to Manaeds
• Thamyris chose a nightinggale - in life he'd boasted that he could sing better than the Muses, who subsequently blinded him and
took away his poetry and ability to play the Lyre
• Ajax (20th soul) chose a lion, remembering the judgement of mankind
• Agamemnon chose an eagle because he hated humanity (his wife killed him)
• Atalanta, who was a virgin Huntress sworn to Artemis in life, chooses the life of an athlete
• Epeius son of Panopeus chooses to be a craftswoman
• 'Buffoon' Thersites chooses an ape
• Odysseus chooses last of all, and chooses a humble life proclaiming that if he'd chosen first, he would have made the same
choice.
• The souls then camp by the Forgetful River and drink of its waters, forgetting their lives. At midnight earthquake and thunder
come, and souls rush away to be born.
• Er is forbidden to drink, and wakes up on the funeral pyre.
• Greater context
• Plato influenced by Socrates; resents the Athenians for putting Socrates to death
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• Plato leant away from divine predeterminism, instead favouring ideas that man can shape his own destiny
•
Source 4: Except from Parian Marble regarding Demeter
(1410/9 BCE:) From when Demeter, coming to Athens, [invented] the seed corn, and the [first festival of ploughing time
was celebrated, under the instruction of T]riptolemus, son of Celeus and Neaira, 1146 years, when Erechtheus was king in
Athens.
• Source: The Parian Chronicle or Parian Marble, a chronology inscribed on a marble stele on the island of Paros,
found in multiple fragments, covering a chronology from 1582-299BCE. Created ~264BC, probably referencing
Athenian archives for dates.
• This Stele is effectively referencing the origin of agriculture in Greece (but is probably quite inaccurate:
Agriculture would have been in Greece thousands of years before this suggests)
• Mythical Context:
• Demeter, Athens and Triptolemus are all significant figures in the Eleusinian mysteries
• Whilst searching for Persephone, Demeter was given hospitality by Celeus at Eleusis
• Celeus asked her to nurse his son Demophon, and she did, attempting to burn off his mortal spirit
• One day she was caught by Celeus' wife, Metanira, and so had to stop
• When Triptolemus was sick, Demeter breast fed him, causing him to become healthy and instantly
grow into an adult
• When making Demophon immortal failed, Demeter instead opted to teach Triptolemus the art of
agriculture and give him a winged chariot, from which he could spread agriculture throughout all of
Greece
• Triptolemus taught the Greeks the art of agriculture. Once Persephone reunited with Demeter, they
also helped teach the Greeks with Triptolemus
Source 5: Discussing Priam (Stealing women):
The accounts go on to say that some forty or fifty years afterwards Paris, the son of Priam, was inspired by these stories
to steal a wife for himself out of Greece, being confident that he would not have to pay for the venture anymore than the
Greeks had done. And that was how he came to carry of Helen. The first idea of the Greeks after the rape was to send a
demand for satisfaction and for Helen's return. The demand was met by a reference to the seizure of Medea and the
injustice of expecting satisfaction from people to whom they themselves had refused it, not to mention the fact that they
had kept the girl. Thus far there had been nothing worse than woman stealing on both sides; but for what happened next
the Greeks, they say, were seriously to blame; for it was the Greeks who were, in a military sense, the aggressors
• Source: Herodotus, The History, 1-1.5
• Source context:
• Herodotus is discussing the source of conflict between the Persians, Greeks
• Phoenician merchants make port at Argos and, before they depart, steal the Argive king Inachus' daughter Io, among others,
taking them to Egypt.
• Allegedly this is how Io came to be in Egypt
• Phoenicians argue that she bedded the captain voluntarily and remained with the ship after she found herself pregnant
• Greeks, probably Cretans, make port at Tyre and steal the king's daughter Europa
• Greeks made port at Aea in Colchis, on the river Phasis, abducting Medea
• King asks for daughter back and reparations; Greeks retort that they got none for Io
• Source begins: Paris is emboldened by these tales and decides to steal Helen.
• Stealing women isn't lawful but it isn't a big deal. Nevertheless, the Greeks raised an army and destroyed the empire of
Priam for it
• Persians argue that it was the capture of Troy that made them enemies of the Greeks
• [This makes little sense, the Persians wouldn't be relevant for hundreds of years after Troy]
Source 6: Orpheus lost Eurydice twice!
What could he do, where go, his wife twice taken from him ? What lament would move Death now ? What deities hear his
song ? Cold she was voyaging now over the Stygian stream. Month after month, they say, for seven months alone He wept
beneath a crag high up by the lonely waters Of Strymon, and under the icecold stars poured out his dirge That charmed
the tigers and made the oak trees follow him. As a nightingale he sang that sorrowing under a poplar's Shade laments the
young she has lost, whom a heartless ploughman Has noticed and dragged from the nest unfledged; and the nightingale
Weeps all night, on a branch repeating the piteous song, Loading the acres around with the burden of her lament.
• Source: Virgil, The Georgics 4.450-503
• Source Context
• Aristaeus has trouble with his bees and asks Proteus for help, who offers the following story:
• Lol how the fuck is this relevant, Proteus you're a shit friend
• Orpheus receives punishment, in that his wife Eurydice runs away and is killed by a snake
• In other variants, Eurydice is set upon by a satyr and is killed by snakes whilst trying to flee
• Many creatures wailed in response
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Document Summary
Minos, according to tradition, was the first person to organize a navy. He controlled the greater port of what is now called the hellenic sea; he ruled over the cyclades, in most of which he founded the first colonies, putting his sons in as governors after having driven out the carians. And it is reasonable to suppose that he. Thucydides wrote his history throughout the peloponnesian war, from 431-410bc. "hellas" did not exist before the trojan war, there was just lots of regions named after local tribes. Hellenic identity developed over time due relations to hellen, son of deucalion. Deucalion"s wife and hellen"s mother was pyrrha, who was the daughter of epimetheus and pandora. Deucalion"s other children include protogenea, amphictyon (aka autochthonus) Homer uses "hellenes" to refer to achilles" followers from phthiotis; rest are called danaans, argives and achaeans. "foreigners" to refer to others, as no collective hellenic identity has developed.
