Political Theory - Class 4
Subjective dispositions of the ruling class
A just city requires education in certain things
It is good to be just for its own sake
Is it better to be just or perfectly unjust?
Socrates claims it’s the start of the real argument
A group of jus men is stronger than a group of unjust men.
Glaucon & Adeimantus
To persuade or to truly persuade.
This time argument is out of love. Desire for knowledge. Love for it is
Glaucon isn’t persuaded, he did not show why justice is good in itself. Justice
is good in its own sake.
That’s not the view of the many, rather it seems to belong …
Socrates makes a jab at democracy. They make it seem like we participate in
politics for some instrumental gain. Wants to show it is good in itself.
Restores Persimicus’ argument. The life of the perfectly just person is
miserable and vice versa.
Only people who take it seriously find the best argument. Find the best
argument you want to defeat.
First he argues naturally everyone seeks there own, no one is simply power
to take over someone else. They know they cannot get away with unjust. So
they make rules of justice. More profitable to set up rules than to live in a
society where there are no guarantees that they wont be harmed by others.
Justice is a convention established for there own mutual self-interest. Makes
them stronger. We only do justice because it is necessary not because it is
good. To enjoy a certain amount of good we must follow these rules
Ring of Gyges: tale illustrates the intuition everyone shares. If we are
abstracted from social we are left with purely naked desire. Social desire to
rule all others. If we could become invisible we need to satisfy our desire. Sex
and domination. Rules and convention are meant to constrain this is we can
get more overall desire. This shows if we could get away with it we would.
Reputation of perfectly justice but commit radical acts of injustice without
being caught is perfectly injustice.
Perfectly just & perfectly injustice: Although everyone thinks you’re unjust,
you’re doing acts is a way better life than vice versa. Doing something for its
own sake is the pure good. It outweighs any other goods.
Take the seeming justice away from the perfectly just. A wants to say we
have to take all the benefits away. It’s the being of justice, with the ideal of
justice. Not socially mediated at all. How character measures up to the ideal
of justice, not social. Taking away the gods id key. Why would I be just? This book is about the concept of justice on its own must compel our actions
– 366E. Everyone who praises justice is strictly of the social glory. No one
argues that justice is about the soul for greater good. (Guard) – ruling class
guards political justice. No one made the arguments to the guards that it is
better to be just.
If everyone minded their own business we wouldn’t need social guards. No
one would seek domination and rule, on