CLA160H1 Lecture Notes - Second Punic War, Marcus Velleius Paterculus, Doctor Of The Church
15 views5 pages
Feb. 26, 2013
roman constitution: the way ancients were looking at it (monarchy, aristocracy, democracy…etc.) Rome
was able to combine all the three (mixed constitution) = Polybius
Topic: culture/education, luxury and religion**
suspicious towards Greek culture.. his view.
traiditonally, they had success (one can say) interesting illustrating this process, end result is clear and
hellenistic cuture was fully adopted by Roman and it wasn’t a straightforward triumph.
LR 185: Greek physicians …what can the problem be? pliny says earlier author… authority of the
statement that the first physician was Agustus. 219 BC. ROmna citizenship granted and shop proided
and remakrable hearler of wound… he was welcome.
Doctors and Greek world? why come from the Greek world? what is interesting about the Greeks? they
invented study of medicine. HIPPOCRATES, a famous Greek physician 5th C (400 BCE) Hippocratic oath.
"DO NO HARM"***
anyone who wants access survived in Greek and translations, languages. What the greeks thought and
its analytical and high class and in this case, do no harm: Greek doctor who came to Rome did promote
quote by Marcus C. still in LR 185 BC
one example doctors, popular even by official public practice but at the same time there were
written by much later Septonius, life of emperor…. studying information abou rhetorics.
- difficulties of censors and in fact doesat some point, access to archives and was keen on conducting
schoalriship down on the archives and present these documents and special for that reason…
time of Cato… speeches made about philosophers…. provide invest in the interest of the state…
not allowed to live in Rome*** stern measures…. 7 years later, 92 BC… same class of men, reported that
there are men introduced new kind of training.
doctors, you can understand, its revolting to see human cut off…. for greater good.
rhetoricians… whos going to be heard? it wasn’t tradition. Roman men… not talking about young men,
not really…. young men training use of weapons (sports) and theres a difference where you are sitting
down reading, speeches…. this isnt manly.
seems harsh and not allowed to live in Rome and expelled…>.<
other reasons include: idleness.
what's the true roman identity? these were foriengers…being active in politics and state affairs… maynot
even be roman citizens Nor in order.. simply just living becoming rhetorics and teaching to greek
learning. we are in that environment (learning)
we should be symphathetic and be inspried for young men who wanted to learn.
but at this moment, this was awkward. they may not have been enetered into senate, participate and
held office themselves. but in roman soceity, they could join or come to visit senator and listen in..as he
walked around in city… dealt with clients, prepared for speech, meeting senates (hands on learning to
how become yourself- fully fledged member of the elite) 150s BCE** middle republic…
quiet different world, that these young men were introduced to. its right to ask… what speeches did the
Roman give themselves? its funny…. has to do with Scipio Africanus (victor of hanibal) important figure
in ROme conquered carthage in 201. not particularly old… but his presence in Roman state, prescents
fought in the east…
for whatever reason (jaelously…? competition?) accused by political opponent… great hero who
conquered spain for ROme, he edned up in 180 accused with his brother , mishandling thing in the east,
he gave a speech. how was he going to defend himself? "i conquered hanibal.. lets go to temple… I have
spoken' so…. how does he approach the issue, or the audience?
used his own authority. that’s all. question of having a status…. compete with status and authroity. you
don’t need to explain anything… so if thye had argument…. attack or not attack… if you don’t
argument… there are no arugment but factual arguemnt?.... >. n the end, its an issue of who has better
connection/ clinets/… thus issue of clients/connections/network/services/pressure.
you have followers and how issues were decided. we have the asembly who votes… but this is an issue
of 'you follow great man' this was the stiutation.
that is something which might change if you have people who were trained by this, greek experts on
rhetoric. teachers who can train especially young men to speak well… because you can think of an
arugement which were against what scipio did… anyone think…. stop! issue wanst about zama (that’s 20
years ago) what about the milion? lets go to the temple jupiter maximus. if thre was someone who gave
a formulated speech, argues to the point* this will cause problems for thes tanding order and its system
that rome created for itself. there is an issue thrown out of ROme…
its not just this… already create some animosity.. they might feel that things are now changing…
argument…that im the general and be queit… im the general. not good at speaking at the end. they end
up with debate… there are doers but no speakers. (damages?)
different reasons for being suscpiious of greek learning, in this case rhetoric the way in which you can
defend your cause and persuade your listeners. PERSUASION is very important in this case.
issue of LATIN (which Cato was in favour of)
but luxury… problems ROme had with luxury… illustrate essential aspect of Roman society.
Romans got richer too.. concern with luxury…
standing up for yourself for what? LR 170
VELLEIUS refers to the first scipio africanus conquered carthage and then 2 genderation after, also had
name scipio africanus aemilianus. he was the one led to defeat last 3rd punic war 146BC
Livy: beginning of luxury dated to earlier date 180s and heres other authors pliny and velleius fixed on
146 BC year in which conquered both south and carthage and east corinth** CORINTH conquered in
that year. one of the issues those criticized luxury in ROme… why one might ask? what's the problem
even if people with gold and silver at Rome…. huge banquet… why should they worry about it? Rome
did worry about it. *what seems to be the problem, and generate legislation, long series of them..during
2nd Punic war…. restrictions of luxury… what is the problem then?
political conlficts bribery, extoriton, expolitation, corrupting morality, class conflicts, look down upon,
to sum it up: concern with luxury is NOT just or predominantly simple jealousy. its not just much of
interests of private lives.. but the behaviour of elite= political issue precaution of roman soceity… drives
different polices and attempt roman society which culminates series of loss… in the end, after 150
years… stop legislating but at that point of time, the attempts…. how can we see repurcussion? were
they aware of it? its importantly the passage from Velilius LR
roman soceity heading the way it was open for luxury… rome fear of carthage… class of vritue=
corrupption. mentioned roman society setting at this timemodern schoalrs and students say, the late
republic begins* which for us is introducted by the tribunt of tiberius gracchus***** it is also beginning
of making sense historical spekaing just creating and set in motion of series of events which meant that
rome enetered a new period. late republic, everythign changed…. new monarchy 133 BC* modern
choalrs organize its date in history. its impoertnat ot have periods. there are different situations and
periods in Greece. suddenly, there is new period in history. periodization: that is whhat we are having
here. vellius…talking hindsight, a cenutry half later, and loolks back( gracchi…) all started 146BC.
late republic for vellius started 146BC. cruucial thing here was once foreign threats were removed, they
couldn’t keep it going any longer, and couldn’t restrain themselves and let go. adminrable strong roman
spirit force disipated and saw other phenomenon.
there is another historian who also dates precisely 146 BC…. once threat gone, roman soceity was
corrupted. pliny stated this* it’s a new period and luxury took over. no wonder, we can say that it was
an issue just because it meant a new way of behaving. which repercussion ieverythign in rome soceity….
government of provinces or also behaviour of city of Rome itself.
(text with roman millionaires)
LR 171* sumptuary legislation. (comes from expense) it means legislation with expenses too high. this is
legislation tends to curve expenses because luxury is expensive… (obvi)
2 passages: opium law: during 2nd punic war, there was prohibition more than question of taxing every
possible resource… against the war. more or less, constant worry comes across…category of sumptuary
laws. issue such as (limits of how much you can spend on dinners, different dates, limit of guest,
thus… repeat what we are looking at here… getting mixed up at private life? this is an important point to
make*** it could've resulted in corruption, power, behaviour of elites (since it was only the elite had
means of exceeding this number). member of the elite, its political importance…. go to senate, tlak, lead
this also suggests: (this law is a way to show who is in authority. its not just luxury that will make you in
control). make sure luxury will not make you powerful. furthermore, its suggesting that luxury shouldn’t
be on top of the law. a reminder that luxury shouldn’t make it powerful.
*STATUS QUO* to keep things as they are… obvious that the legislators were interetsed in. there were
simpy new phemenon… in the old days..went on all the time, but resources were limited and knew what
was going on. certain individuals… conquered carthage. they come home and make use of profits made
and try to outdue everyone else…. wanted to keep it that way. position threaten… because they are not
fighting..but there are upstarts and new guys coming in with riches…
other aspect of the use of luxury: cicero states about this.
several passages to be read which are LR: 46 (access of non patricians to these priesthoods).. finally the
non patricinas gained access through LEX OGULNIA in 300…proved more dififcult to non patrican to
become hold office for priesthood, etc