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Political Science
Clifford Orwin

th Thursday October 18 , 2012 Lecute-6 POL200Y1 – Y TAMING SPIRITEDNESS  The whole question is how could the tame the spiridness of the guardian class as the security of the city – instead of making it dangerous for the city?  Important; the discrepancy between the ruling class and role of reason in the city  The city says to us; don’t look elsewhere – look only what at we approve of or saction- value what you have. Remain loyal  Socarates no where curses his eyes or mind of though but fully indulges for the longing of truth no matter how far it takes him from atheinan mind  Juistice in the individual is in the happiness of the people; how do enable socarates to prove that. If justice is best for the city making a happy city- justice must be the best thing for the soul too- for the individual as awhole. Justice as the core of human happiness. What we admire in and eny in others and seek for ourselves  445ab- conclusion of this argument; in justice is a war and struggle within the soul-  S to show what he has prove; glacon is entirely convinced; we know what the just city looks like- the three categories of society, justice being in core with happiness and health of the soul  S has entirely won G over to the side of justice over injustice; knowing what it is, is knowing what good is.  Do we know what justice is? What would such a person look like? The just man is redefined as the man who always does what is best for himself – 445a. shoemaking- and nothing else and well as carpet making and nothing else. What is within- what concerns himself and his own- arranges himself and harmonizes the three parts exactly like the harmonious parts in a musical scale (lower, middle and upper) JUSTICE AS INTERNAL MATTER  Justice becomes an interal matter; if we redefine justie as happiness. There was never any dout that justice was good for the city or other people, the question was; was it good for you to treat others with justice. It is good for to practice justice, if its good for you- but that’s conflicting the matter; it no longer means you being a proper part of society, but instead minding your own business in the sense of getting your own house in order  Justice as an internal matter says nothing what we would expect justice to tell us about justice in relation to others in the city. Reaises the question of what is just or happy? What does it look like? Does he look like a good citizen or a tyrant ?  S has redefine justice as the reason of life. What is the reasonable life? Does it look anything like the justice life that is commonly understood to be? S replies just life is the reasonable life that is the health of the soul, whatever it may be-just has G said he had persuaded him but he hasn’t really unpuzzled the idea  Reason has a desire of its own- doesn’t that suggest that the reason of life would mean that the reason of desire would drive life?  S sweeps these problems over the rug, and pulls wool over G’s eyes  Polymarchus-everything that S swept under the rug- is unswept; he bring the issues back up in the discussion ( s andswered whether justice is good but hasn’t answered the relation between justice with the individual and that of the society and city – the fellow citzens)  Polymarchus poses a how to question; how would the community of children and women work? S robbed them a part of the problem. Neglected issue; community of women and children and how that would be arragned into the arugemnt. S mentions communism of children and woman in book 4 speaking with edymantis SAME WAY OF LIFE: MEN AND WOMEN  S reply to polymarchus; whole new beginning to the argument; polymarchus is sworming up a great deal of new arguments. So far the woman in the class in the republic isn’t really bough up since the book is a mhy ans books, but now the curtain rises on the female one. What kind of drama is this though? The greeks knew two kinds; tragic and comedy. Does this drama make us tremble with fear? Obviously not. Is it then comedic then? Does it make us laugh? No. so what then invokes it? nothing is set; real disconnect between us and them. They believe in their fixed notion of men and woman. Where each belong. we hold differentiating views against them- we work in equal ways (send women in war/ adovocate for womens hokey)  Why do we believe that women should have same opportunity has men? Does we even think about it? many women have the same capabilities because they too are HUMAN. We see in terms of everyone being a human being not in terms of gender; women and men. Equal capsity; important for women to equal opportunity because we cant risk to deny them the opportunity. If we do then we are wasting the capacity.  S view; are these S reasons too? Does he make an argument of equal rights? No, he doesn’t? he doesn’t even present his scheme as good for them. He doesn’t even suggest in consulting women if they agree with the scheme. The scheme will be imposed on the women of city just as communism on the men. What is S model of the proper treatment of women? The model is how we treat domesticated beasts- how we make them work for us. Treat women how to treat female dogs. Performing whatever function a dog performs. Get the women out in the fields , not wasting their time gossiping or sleeping or dirinking. New demand of S; women join men in becoming equal slaves of the city- fighting for common good of the city. This S says will result in better good for the city. Compelling the women to lead the same life as men; life activities persevered as the right of men must be open to woman. Woman entering war and contributing to society. The notion of men and woman excersizing together- will call for laughs but that’s how it was when men first starting excersizing naked.  S present this as sutu-comic; the wise wont laugh, they will understand this notion. Such exsierzise was a theme in comedic theather. it was excepted and repsected. S choses to dwell on ungliness; the riggled old people excersizing together that is the theme of sexual comdedy but of beautiful people  If something is good and reasonable cant be funny. Only ugly can be funny. Math class; when equation proves to be false- we laugh. Is that ow laughter works- reasonable and unreasonable? Laughter is loudest in math classes? Raises the issue of shame; the riduclist is closely related to the shameful. We laugh in which others would be embarrassed. We continue to find nakedness shamefull and therefore funny, but S has defined it as reasonable. Relations between the sexies can be carried out based on convension and reason?  Even if we accept S view that in time the sexes exserzing together would sieze to be funny- still theres an objection to the scheme that he himself raises; each should preform the task connected to his nature. Men and woman have different natures so how can be assign them the save task. G doesn’t know. Then S meets the subjection  S consieves of the city and says if it is a community of artisians then gender doesn’t matter. Equally being skilled at shoemaking would this mean they have the same skill nature. So gender is irrelevant, capacity alone matter. S claims that in fact human capacity is scattered across a bell curve, but that men dominat at the top of the curve and women at the bottom. The best practicians o
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