POL345.FEB 14 2012.SP
On Feb 20th, there will be a meeting about regional issues
On March 6 2 meeting. Also same date paper is due.
The second date, March 6 may be postponed to the next week.
Debate consist of 3 students each taking one position.
Positions
Iron wall. The land belongs to Israeli’s. Raise a tall wall
Two state solution
Bi-national state/ state of all its citizens
Each role taker must be an advocate. Even if you don’t believe in it.
Pros and cons are mentioned but conclude that your position is the best choice.
Debate on notion of time.
Who do you think will believe that time will solve the problems, Palestinians or Arab.
Cause Jewish to lose state, colonialism disappears etc.
Volunteers are to take each of three positions. Debate and include class participation.
Students
Victor took iron wall
Ax took 2 state solutions
John took bi-national state
What do we mean by Israeli state?
Do we include Palestinians? Majority of Palestinians feel they are not included.
The re-definition of Israeli is required to include Palestine. Israelis minority is subservient.
Swapping land and people. Statistically Arab doesn’t want to move.
Leavening settlers in west bank. Moving Arabs to the state of Palestine.
Majority of Israeli liberals, reject facing out Jewish state + Jewish nature.
Call for making Israeli Palestinians apart of us, we. Equality sharing, laws, changing some
symbols.
Arabs could serve in national service and not IBF. Receive same rights.
Class exercise
Questions asked for debate.
What lessen do you extract from lessen of two cities?
Student: elite one on hill was built was used to stand against one on Nazareth. Show they want to have a
presence that they are biggest. A large Jewish presence. Also build on higher elevation for defence
verses neighbour Arab cities. This difference reflects the inequality no matter on paper how many laws
were passed for equality.
Formally Arabs are supposed to have equal right. But the Jewish community is much larger, more
wealthy which emphasis the differences.
Batley present government to change structure of Supreme Court so Supreme Court will be more
favourable to discriminated.
#2 question
Should Israeli Palestinian be part of moral community?
Student: Yes need a say to be part of the state identity
Can they be part of the us without being part of the moral community?
Very Jew people make argument professor makes. Ynesism brings colonizing Israeli must have constriction, bill of rights. Those inscribe, write in stone.
Do you think power sharing is a viable positional alternate for Israelis and Palestine?
Arab is part of element, but not government.
Can count support on the Arab
Student: Demographic not stable, population not stable. Arab Members are in parliament but then
when it fell, it made dramatic change.
Student: Both Switzerland and Belgium were made states were made for balance power. Israel is not
stable on the power topic, so they can’t officially share power.
Professor: if 150 years from now, if they think they are going to win, then they are going to wait. Each
side won’t reconcile each other as a we.
Israeli democracy and identity.
Problem is Israel is Jewish and democratic. What is the political system? Democracy part of nation
identity (another factor)
Democratic because of the structure? Citizens see it part of their identity.
Debate: Is Israel
What we are also who we are.
People give different answers on democracy depending on who they are, who they think they
are.
Charter, culture, laws, identity, state founded by 1 nation can be democratic while neglecting
the 20% minority. Core religious? Part of land? Democratic?
main reasons con Israel not a democratic identity
1. Sizable Arab minority living in Jewish state
Jewishness of state, Jew religion, holiday
Occupation of Arab territory because believe they are Israel’s land. 2. Religious party became more aggressive on state, theocratic state. Demanded more anti-liberal
measures.
Israeli can be both Jewish and democratic only if.
Other paths.
Democracy
- +
Jewish state - authoritarian Democratic bi-national
theocracy Reformed Jewish state
+
Background history
Is it natural that Israel becomes a democratic state?
Zionism use democratic institution is allocating state.
Zionism dependant on ruler, Great Britain, and then U.S to get help. Procedural democracy.
Democracy has not made its way from political institute to political identity.
Because most Jews came from Russia, Iraq, countries who didn’t know liberal beliefs. Historically
Jews did not come from Canada, us
1992 Russian Jews came, referred activism as wrong. The mentality that activism is wrong.
European democracy was alien to Israeli
Early Israeli was socialist, Marx, all zionese were nationalist. These ideas overrides concerns for
minorities, what mattered were the state. Zion was collective force, no attention for individuals.
What do individuals do for collective not what the collective does for the individuals.
Jewish religion rejects privatization of regions, separate of state and religion
Minority created civic and political right; reality state was created by Jews for the Jews.
Inspite of wars, state remain democratic, stayed democratic after pressure from hostile
neighbour.
Israeli doesn’t have attributes of a formal democracy.
Israel has committed h
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