POL200Y1 Chapter 2: Thucydides' On Justice, pages 66-76, 89-95, 102-109, 111-123
Complicated political phenomenon
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'Athenians hopeful beyond power'
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Hope and danger
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Athenian character
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Themes
Delean League --> alliance against Persians
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Athenians turned league into an empire
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Money kept in Athens
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Mytilenans were powerful --> gave ships expertise in naval affairs, an important ally
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Set standard for rest of league
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Athens wanted to kill all my men --> Spartans took too long to arrive and fight
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Next morning, they change their minds
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Everyone nervous whether or not they can stop
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Main leader after Pericles
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Combative - not actually a fighter
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No surrender
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Democracy: orator telling how dumb people are to listen to speeches -->
terrify from speaking
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Need to admit that this is tyranny and nothing else
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Cleon
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Treat everyone as guilty
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Can't eliminate, just solve
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People will rebel in future
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Only care about interests
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Not going to talk about justice
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They will help in future of war
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Divide - turn against each other
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Defends democracy: good for Athens, good man has to lie
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Diiodides
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Mytilenains
Behind closed doors
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ineffective? Still talk about justice / hope
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Maintains request
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No public eye - be honest
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Most important part of book
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Melians have no power --> extreme inequality
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Leaders / diplomats - only council
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103: Athenian: strong do what they can, weak suffer what they must --> we are
powerful, you must obey
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Athenians dispute hope 'comfort and danger'
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surprised that Melians will believe Gods will help them
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No reason to think Gods will save them
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Spartans won't bother to save you
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'Gods rule where they can'
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Athenians have made proposal: take down walls and we won't destroy you -->
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105: Melians: trying to persuade not to attack, end up saying they hope (1)
Spartans help (2) Gods
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Melos
Tutorial 2
December 23, 2016
5:47 PM
TUTORIAL Page 73
Document Summary
Mytilenans were powerful --> gave ships expertise in naval affairs, an important ally. Athens wanted to kill all my men --> spartans took too long to arrive and fight. Everyone nervous whether or not they can stop. Democracy: orator telling how dumb people are to listen to speeches --> terrify from speaking. Need to admit that this is tyranny and nothing else. Defends democracy: good for athens, good man has to lie. 103: athenian: strong do what they can, weak suffer what they must --> we are powerful, you must obey. 105: melians: trying to persuade not to attack, end up saying they hope (1) Athenians dispute hope "comfort and danger" surprised that melians will believe gods will help them. No reason to think gods will save them. Athenians have made proposal: take down walls and we won"t destroy you -->
