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University of Toronto St. George
Woodsworth College Courses
William Watson

CHILDREN. MENTALLY ILL. INTELLECTUALLY HANDICAPPED Oct. 23  Individuals who are incarcerated but are not blame worthy (i.e. mental institutions)  is this still punishment?  non-punitive kinds of punishment  these people are treated in a clinical or educational way  not with the intention of punishing them  young people, children youth, mentally ill and disabled people  in all these except kids, they have committed criminal code offence and sentenced to straightforward punishment  community sanctions, etc.  youth under youth justice system  we are talking about people in some kind of custodial rights  talking about infringing on their rights (and normal business)  detained against their will, not meant to punish  might suffered experiences in institutions that are additionally punitive  sometimes they are intentionally punished  3 pops this most the case  there are other cases, i.e. elderly people with degenerative diseases, etc.  Does it make sense to say they are not being punished?  in these cases, they are considered to need to be incap. because they threaten social order  looks like the system of punishment  even though not intentional, is it still punishment?  The reading about survey  trying to gage info on children in hidden custody  not in youth justice or mental  they are in custodial care that not in registry  being detained for their own good  subjected to coercion  in the case of children, its different:  when away from care of parents, those looking over them have parental rights  very different situation  residential schools, treatment facilities  may be referred by court, school, psychologist, etc.  unlike UK, in the NA there are private institutions where parents send their troubled children and youth  parents purchasing services without reference from state  there are status offences: you can send a youth into custody if they do something, but not an adult (in trouble, but not breaking law)  i.e. absconding from another institution  engaging in school violence  inappropriate sex or addiction behaviours, etc.  truancy from school  Grandview in Ontario: state run, for children  girls would be there for all of above examples  many treatment programs  decided psychotherapy did not work  want to keep them there to deliver treatment programs (need to lock them up to deliver the program)  the idea is not different from the civil commitment of the mentally ill  civil commitment of the mentally ill: putting someone in mental hospital against their will  because children are not able to make adult children, depriving them of their rights is not the same as it would be with adults  we are not as offended b/c we expect the parents/state to make the right decisions  this is an ordinary part of the justice system, even though youth custody has shifted away to more criminal code violations  1984 on ward, moves away from therapeutic ideal, but many still ending up in institutions  Also the question of what happens inside?  maintain discipline, therapeutically punished inside  drawing the lines between this and punishment is hard  UK: Pin down scandal:  social worker tried to establish discipline avoiding abuse  involved restraining, putting in seclusion, time outs, etc.  by the time it became scandal, it was seen as abuse of the children  within institutions, there is more directly seen as forms of punishment  is this punishment or not?  worth asking if the sociologies of punishment; how they would frame these practices?  Liberal pluralist: who argues against and for them, govn’t funding, etc.  they will not have much to say because it’s a hidden story  the picture they tend to draw: things are much more public now, however, polices such as these are drawn behind peoples backs  These particular institutions is not the subject of much public debate  Durkheim: the answer to if its punishment in unequivocal  they say the essence of punishment is public ritual  there is not public ritual here  its’ kept quite  people are not proud of taking kids away from parents  they don’t have much to say of it  Soc. of Ineq.: if we ignore private institutions in US, the people who govn’t agencies send are from marginalized populations, typically subjects of inequality system  how does this fit in with policing of marginalized communities  what’s going on there is not an ideology, because it is hidden (an ideology must be broadcasted, and the public must know about it)  Foucault: if their picture is one where justice is turned into therapy and then ultimately something else happens, which is the government steps back from the total control, and begins to bring in citizens and other agencies, then you could imagine how it would look: fits in with patterns of discourse  wanting to talk about ways children are rep. of modern discipline  Intellectually disabled people: people can have mild handicaps that are still locked up in jail  here, were talking about people more with those who can’t function in society because behaviour troublesome  the eugenics idea of the defective strain within human populations  people had the idea that the rump end of humans were breeding faster than the top end  the alcoholic ends were breading too fast  and the doctors and lawyers were not have enough kids  had a racial over tone  targeted within racial communities  some white groups had the inferior breeding families  many were taken into long term institutions, called columns  were sterilized  the legislation started around same time as youth act  the things they did things wrong were not illegal, but more social wrongs  Is locking them up punishment?  some had large handicaps  the staff clearly cared about them  but they didn’t; have the same legal and civil rights as others; lost their legal rights  some else arises in regards to regards to care of intellectually diabled, which is more to do with modern systems of treatment  now a strong emphasis on living in the community  still individuals who can’t manage to live in community and have to be institutionalized  question arises about how they are treated (what happens when they are treated)  question of punishmen
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