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HUMA 1825
Roger Fisher

The Furies QuotesBe persuaded not to bear this burden of griefyou were not defeated o Athena said this to the Furies after they lost the trialThen the killer would not be spilling kindred blood line 212 o The chorus is speaking to Apollo and telling him that when a wife kills a husband it is not kindred bloodSo you would rather be called just than act justly line 430 o Athena is saying this to the furies I have proof that there can be a father without a mother line 662 o Apollo talking to the furies is saying this about Zeus and his daughter Athena who is said to have come out of his skullLaw and order for the furies is about fear Question is whether killing his mother was a crime Apollo follows god divine law It is a male centered societyAthena wants a golden mean result making both sides happyfinding a balance for the furies and Orestes It is a clash between an ideal concept of justice o Furies represent idealismabsolutism form of justice o Athena represents realismpragmatism form of justiceo Depicts clash between malefemale view of justice Everyone in the story is concerned with storing balanceseeking corrective justiceo Orestes killed his mother because she killed his fathero Furies want to punish Orestes for killing his motherAntigone Conflict between rational and irrational o Antigone is rational and Creon is irrationalAntigone depicts the ageold debate between Natural Law and Legal Positivism o Creon is first legal positivistand is a tyrant There is a lawbreak the lawpenaltyAntigone and Creon are absolutists o Have an ideal view of justice o Competing views of justice and conflict Haemon in the play represents both sides to his father and counsels him but takes no side o Haemon believes you should follow the law but the community is against the lawCreon was taking an extreme position which will have consequences Chorus tells Creon that Haemon is right o Creon doesnt want anyone telling him what to dobecomes an outcastAntigone believed in eternal law but only if affects her only does something when she is getting hurtWhat Antigone was doing was binding her in conscience at first but not by the end of the play But there is no greater evil than a state of lawlessness o Haemon is saying this to his fatherAgrees with his father that a state nees law Thats it you said just like someone who has no experience of government o Haemon is saying this to his father Creon his father doesnt take the peoples perspective and also is an outcast and a not a good leader of society I think you have learnedperhaps too latethe meaning of justice o The chorus is saying this to Creonhe has learned to late what he did was wrong Creon did not follow rites law did not allow for the brothers burial I will not be charged with convicted of betraying my own brother o Even though human law didnt allow her to bury her brother eternal law would want her to bury her brother Ode to Wisdom o Dont dishonour the gods Divine law o Be wise and rational use reasono To not make human law the reason everyone is against you Treatment of the Dead 1 Antigones Positionhe has no lawful right to keep me from my own kinI will go and make a burial mound for my dearest brother2 Creons Position Such is my resolve and counsel and I will never honour the wicked in preference to those who are just and lawfulObedience to the Laws 1 Creons Position did you know this burial was banned by public decreeand yetdared to ignore the law2 Antigones Position I did not think your decree had such force and effect being a human law as to supersede the unwritten and authoritative rules of the godsPlato Socrates Apology Justice is external unchanging and perfect Justice is a good thing in and of itself Justice is not relative or conditional on circumstances Justice can be taught To know the good is to do the good o His view of justice is more fixed than Aristotleso Perceive it with your intellect Socrates admitted to what he was accused of but believes he was right just like Antigone Socrates believed he obeyed the law Introduced a new discourse to the courthow to speak about a topic Socrates thought philosophy led to justice He opposed Creons Antigones form of justice Was a fan of democracy Lost by 300 votes when convictedThe Return of Martin GuerreJurisprudence How judges decide trials o The judge in the play was precursor to modern jurisprudence o Doesnt presuppose until the end and allows for a fair trialThe judges in the play made things as best as possible for people who live in the play o Legitimatized the child and allow it to stay in the familyMurder in the Cathedral Friendship between Beckett and Henry IIRelates to Aquinas o Beckett was binded in conscience to do the right thing The issue in the play question of hierarchy legal rank o Different type of law natural eternal Thomas was a legal chancellor followed human law and was guided by human lawKing Henry believe in human law because he was the king Henry then appointed Beckett as the arch bishop Chief official religious leadero Henry wanted to go after the church and their courts to bring them under his powero Church was threatening force to Henry o Pope was spiritual leader of kings and everyone and political leader of church o Confusion of where kings rank do they take order from pope
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